"no KERMA data" but ACE file contains them

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nico
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"no KERMA data" but ACE file contains them

Post by nico » Fri Apr 10, 2020 7:22 pm

Dear Serpent Team,
I am having a serious issue with a coupled neutron-gamma simulation where I need the energy deposition mode 3. I was successful in running my code using the ENDF/B-VII containing the KERMA data that you kindly provided here (viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3187&p=10293&hilit=kerma#p10293), but I'd like to run this simulation using the most updated version, library ENDF/B-VIII.
I processed the whole library with NJOY2016, and everything seems ok (I tried it in stand-alone neutron transport mode and it perfectly works) but when I run the Serpent input in the coupled mode with the new library, the following error message comes out,

Code: Select all

"Fatal error in function ReadPendfData:

No KERMA data for nuclide 5010.03c mt = 3301

Simulation aborted."
The ACE files that I am using, however, contain the KERMA (MT301 and the partial KERMAs as well)! I checked it on the ACE plots produced by VIEWR module of NJOY: the KERMAs are there, their value is ok, but Serpent is not able to see them.
I tried to process the ACE with different NJOY versions (2016 and 2021), different NJOY input files (also some examples taken from the NJOY guide itself) and I even tried ACE files not processed by me but already processed by the nuclear library evaluators (from ENDF-B/VII.0, ENDF-B/VIII.0, JEFF-3.3 and TENDL2019 website), but I still get this error, so I think that the problem has to be in Serpent.

Also, I do not understand why the MT 301 is indicated with 3301 in the code error message.

Finally, I am wondering how/where you got the ENDF/B-VII library that you provided at the link above. Could you please provide me even a single NJOY input that you used to process it? I am really stucked!

Thank you so much, any support is very welcome
Nicolo'

Riku Tuominen
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Re: "no KERMA data" but ACE file contains them

Post by Riku Tuominen » Tue Apr 14, 2020 2:28 pm

Hi Nicolo,

the energy deposition modes 1,2 and 3 require data that is not available in the standard ACE-format files produced with NJOY. Therefore, I have added additional data to the end of ACE files using PENDF format. Producing the modified ACE-files requires two NJOY runs for each nuclide and some post-processing. This is probably not an optimal solution but this is how the additional data is handled currently. I think for the moment you have to use the provided ENDF/B-VII.1 which contains the additional data. We are planning on releasing new official Serpent cross section libraries (which will also contain ENDF/B-VIII.0 with the additional energy deposition data) in the future but at the moment we have so much other work to do that I can not give you a date when that will happen. By the way, how did you get the partial KERMAs (e.g. 318) to an ACE file or are you sure that they are actually there?

nico
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Re: "no KERMA data" but ACE file contains them

Post by nico » Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:16 pm

Dear Riku,
thanks for your kind reply.
I attach you an NJOY input that I used to generate the library (the nuclide is Boron because its processing requires only a few sec., but the input files for the other nuclides have the same structure).
I am not sure if MT 318 and other KERMAs are in the ACE file, I believe so because they are present in the PENDF file that is than processed by ACER module (I have some difficulties in understanding the ACE format, while the PENDF is much clearer).
Is this procedure of appending the PENDF file data on the ACE feasible within NJOY (if so, I did not find it on the manual, what is it?) or your post-processing requires some ad hoc codes that you developed? In this case, may I ask you if I can use them?
For me it would not be an issue generating the full library again.
I need the data for the validation of our in-house multi-physics code against the experimental data of EBR-II transient: using the most updated libraries and compare the results with the ones we get with the ENDF-B/VII.1 would be very important!
Thank you for your attention
Nicolo'
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B-010_09.zip
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Riku Tuominen
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Re: "no KERMA data" but ACE file contains them

Post by Riku Tuominen » Wed Apr 15, 2020 3:42 pm

I send you an email. I hope you got it. I had some problems with my email client.

augusto_vib
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Re: "no KERMA data" but ACE file contains them

Post by augusto_vib » Mon Nov 02, 2020 7:28 pm

Dear Riku,

I took a look at the ENDFB71 libraries that the SERPENT team created for running the different edep modes. By taking a look at the ACE files, I see that at the end of the files you add, in PENDF format, info related to the output of HEATR, as well as the MF=1 MT=458 and info about the resonances (perhaps probability tables) by means of the MF=2, 153. I would like to ask you, why the need to add this last info about probability tables in PENDF format?

I will be trying to make my own libraries with perturbed KERMA factors (for uncertainty analysis purposes).

Thank you.

Riku Tuominen wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 2:28 pm
Hi Nicolo,

the energy deposition modes 1,2 and 3 require data that is not available in the standard ACE-format files produced with NJOY. Therefore, I have added additional data to the end of ACE files using PENDF format. Producing the modified ACE-files requires two NJOY runs for each nuclide and some post-processing. This is probably not an optimal solution but this is how the additional data is handled currently. I think for the moment you have to use the provided ENDF/B-VII.1 which contains the additional data. We are planning on releasing new official Serpent cross section libraries (which will also contain ENDF/B-VIII.0 with the additional energy deposition data) in the future but at the moment we have so much other work to do that I can not give you a date when that will happen. By the way, how did you get the partial KERMAs (e.g. 318) to an ACE file or are you sure that they are actually there?

Riku Tuominen
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:52 am
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Re: "no KERMA data" but ACE file contains them

Post by Riku Tuominen » Tue Nov 03, 2020 6:36 pm

NJOY generates separate probability tables for the kerma coefficients and two different kerma coefficients are used by energy deposition modes 2 and 3. Since only one set of probability tables can be stored in the actual ace data, the other one is stored at the end of the file in PENDF format. Some info about the additional data is available in Section 3.4.3 of this paper.

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